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LATER Flanders Ghosts? Stubbs & NASA NASA's UFOs Happenings? Sumer-Americas
NASA's ETs Ancient Civs2 NASA's UFOs Alien Women? UFO Prep EOTW & ET?
Ancient Civs UFO Detect UK's Big Cats Dimensions? Tricksters? EARLIER


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Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 12:04:40 -0000
Subject: Haunted `Flanders Fields'?

Haunted `Flanders Fields'?

Interesting.  Just hearing `From Our Own Correspondent' and Chris Haslam walking east from the Menin Gate way-out through Flanders fields and the military cemeteries that are thick on the ground out there (try Google Street view).

He spoke to an elderly lady walking her dog who told him that many local areas are plagued with feelings of malevolence, night-time screams and places where animals, especially her dog and his predecessors, absolutely refused to go.


Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:15:42 -0000
Subject: Martyn Stubbs has done for NASA what Edward Snowden did for the NSA

Think Martyn Stubbs has done for NASA what Edward Snowden did for the NSA.  Particularly he has revealed what a lot of "unexplained" UFO / ET incidents happened to various Shuttle missions

I.e. [this search] shows the STS-48's "UFO does a sharp turn after being shot at by beam from Earth's surface" - startling when you realize the impossibility of that turn (if humans were inside they'd be raspberry jam);

And [this search] shows the "Tether Incident" during STS-75 mission (you already know the debunkers' explanations don't hold water);

And [this video extract - go to 33mins 12 secs] has Martyn telling of sightings during STS-80 & STS-82 missions (in the second one, the astronauts openly describe seeing two then a third small bright light ENTER the spacecraft thru the door.  Maybe they stayed inside and came back to Earth with them?

If you want to see the whole interview with Martyn - with many similar clips included - try [this search] or google "The Secret NASA Transmissions" and pick the working copy (Google / Youtube keeps deleting them, maybe at NASA's bidding).

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 23:11:55 -0000
Subject: "we'll hear extraterrestrials by the year 2025

Just heard Seth Shostak (SETI) say "I think we'll hear extraterrestrials by the year 2025 ... We'll know we're not alone [in the universe] between the year 2020 and 2025".  I.e. that's between 6 and 11 years from now.  His comments are at the beginning and end of video below.
Naked Science - Alien Contact

Now that's interesting, mainly because I think Shostak is a long-term debunker (against the evidence) of UFO accounts which already establish the fact of contact.

I.e . taking a look at all the (NASA) evidence at ufo-uap.html you can see that many incidents are totally unexplained, and indeed remain unexplainable by non-ET (mundane) scenarios.

Taking the STS-75 or "Tether Incident" and looking at the (NASA) video, you can see that all the debunkers (like NASA's Oberg etc.) who claim "out of focus" "optical illusion" etc. are simply LYING.

That's because the distance (about 80 to 120 miles) is known, and the optical occurences are clear.  So all or most of the "craft" MUST have been at the same (approx) distance as the satellite.

Why?  - Because about half of them circulate IN FRONT of it, and about half of them circulate BEHIND it.  That is not an illusion and cannot be faked.  [And they all move independently - so are not "debris / ice / dust" etc]

So they must be all IN FOCUS [at a distance of about 80 - 120 miles].

Which means we're being lied to by `authority'. -  Why?

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 20:52:25 +0100
Subject: FWD - "So what, if anything, is happening?

Nearly two decades ago there was a forecast - from NASA and international astronomers - that a galactic `wall of dust' was approaching our Solar System (or vice versa - everything is relative) but nothing much was said about any expected effects - probably because they didn't know.

Just recently we're getting some apocalyptic stuff from various self-interested sources, yet most are quoting Earthly temperature changes - and a little analysis (plus a good memory) will tell you that we've had much higher (and lower) temperatures in only one human lifetime (and even more so in the last ten millennia).

So what, if anything, is really happening?

Here's what I've noticed happening over last ten years or so:

strange new cloud formations, apparently never before seen

an increase in medium to large earthquakes

an increase of incoming meteorites, fireballs etc

strange `sky-sounds' from all around the Earth

Maybe you've noticed more?

To me that might indicate an "external" influence rather than any down-to-earth events?


Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 09:56:25 +0100
Subject: FWD - Fuente Magna Bowl - A problem for archeologists (+ debunkers?

Fuente Magna Bowl [google] - A problem for archeologists (+ debunkers?

Fascinating.  As it stands this `libation bowl' would be securely located in the Near to Middle East or Anatolia / Persia, and dated to 6000 - 7000 BCE or even earlier.  That's because it bears what appear to be proto-Sumerian / proto-Elamite cuneiform inscriptions, and also a figure of the Great Goddess in her fertility-figure form (which is strikingly close to her form as depicted on Etruscan chariots - but as a "fear-figure" i.e. "The Gorgon" or Amazonian General - maybe see the-goddess.html#fear).

Problem is - the bowl was found near Lake Titicaca, Bolivia and has apparently been assessed as genuine.  Although Wikipedia and all the other (usually loud skeptic debunker) websites seem to prefer to keep very quiet about it.

BTW - the Great Goddess was titled "Dana" or "Danu" in western Europe (i.e. Ireland), and maybe in Anatolia also, since the five major rivers of the Black Sea have her name or at least the (DA)-NA part (still, even now) included, principally the Danube.
"So, to the Fuente Magna Bowl, discovered near Lake Titicaca, about 70 miles from La Paz, capital of Bolivia. The bowl was found on land in the possession of the Manjon family up until 1958 when its existence became known by a Bolivian archaeologist Don Max Portugal Zamora, who on obtaining it sought to restore the damged parts and attempt a translation. In the latter he was unsuccessful, not least because he failed to recognise that the writing upon the bowl was a form of Proto-Sumerian."
"In 1958/60 Don Max Portugal Zamora, a Bolivian archaeologist, learned of the Fuente Magna bowl's existence. Pastor Manjon, Mr. Portugal "baptized" the site with the name it bears today, "Fuente Magna".
The Fuente Magna bowl was found in a rather casual fashion by a country peasant from the ex-hacienda CHUA, property of the Manjon family situated in the surrounding areas of Lake Titicaca about 75/80 km from the city of La Paz. The site where it was found has not been subject to investigation until recently. The piece in question is a little out of place. It is beautifully engraved in chestnut-brown both inside and out. It reveals zoological motifs and anthropomorphic characters within."
"It is interesting that the people at Fuente Magna, referred to the Goddess as Nia. Nia, is the Linear A term for Neith. Neith, is the Greek name for the Egyptian Goddess Nt or Neit, Semitic Anat. This goddess was very popular among the ancient people of Libya and other parts of Middle Africa, before these people left the region to settle Mesopotamia, the Indus Valley and Minoan Crete."

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:18:26 +0100
Subject: "Will ET Be Here Soon? NASA Brings Scientists, Theologians Together To Prepare

Folk forget to ask the real question.  Like - as everything in politics is planned way ahead of time - why are western (i.e. USA / UK particularly) Gov'ts _not_ investigating (or at least not talking about) those "unexplained things".
Will ET Be Here Soon? NASA Brings Scientists, Theologians Together To Prepare

A few days ago, NASA tried closing the gap between life on Earth and the possibilities of life elsewhere. The space agency and the Library of Congress (image below left) brought together scientists, historians, philosophers and theologians from around the world for a two-day symposium, "Preparing For Discovery." Their agenda: To explore how we prepare for the inevitable discovery of extraterrestrial life, be it simple microbial organisms or intelligent beings..
At the NASA/Library of Congress symposium, Shostak gave out some startling numbers about how many stars there are in the part of the universe that we can see. "It's a big number: 10,000 billion, billion. And we know that most of those stars have planets -- 70 or 80 percent. If all of those planets are sterile, and you're the only interesting thing happening in the cosmos, then you are a miracle. That would be exceptional in the extreme. So, the middle-of-the-road approach is to say, 'You're not a miracle, you're just another duck in a row of ducks.'"

"The bottom line of this," Shostak said, "is something like one in five of all stars may have an analog to Earth. That's a lot of habitable worlds, and, indeed, the number of Earths in our own galaxy might be on the order of 50 billion."

Those are big numbers to ponder.

The D.C. conference included a great deal of discussion about the upcoming mission of the Hubble's long-anticipated successor: the James Webb Space Telescope. As large as a tennis court, this deep space observatory is scheduled for a 2018 launch and will orbit beyond our moon. The Webb telescope will focus on new planetary discoveries and collect data from the atmospheres of those planets, looking for certain things that might point to what we would consider possible indicators of life.

HuffPost asked Dick, an astrobiologist, for his opinion on the continuing output of UFO reports around the world.

"I try to keep an open mind on this. Ninety-some percent can be explained by natural phenomena, etc. The question is what to do with the other 3 or 4 percent," Dick said. "My opinion is that they should be studied further, on the one hand. By definition, they're something that we don't know what they are. They could be some physical, psychological or social phenomena that we don't know about. But I think it's jumping to a conclusion that they're extraterrestrial. I don't see that evidence.

"I haven't looked at the evidence close enough to say that there's intelligence behind it. But I've seen enough to know that there are unexplained things that we should look at more, and right now, the U.S. government is not doing that."

(more at page...)

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:16:08 +0100
Subject: "New Evidence Lost Civilizations Really Existed

Seems sensible - and very much aligned with what we've been speculating on the last few years.
New Evidence Lost Civilizations Really Existed

What if everything you've been taught about the origins of civilization is wrong? Be it that certain pieces of our history have been intentionally hidden, or that we have yet to discover and realize the true story of our past, new archaeological and geological discoveries are revealing that sophisticated civilizations have likely existed in prehistoric times.

Until recently, the archaeological community has spread the view that the beginnings of human civilization started after the last Ice Age, which ended around 9,600 BC. All human ancestors prior to this time were recognized as primitive, uncivilized hunter-gatherers who were incapable of communal organization and architectural design. It was only after the Ice Age, when huge 2-mile deep ice caps that covered much of Europe and North America melted, that our human ancestors started to develop and perfect agriculture, forming more-complex economic and social structures around 4000 BC. Archaeologists believed that first cities started around 3500 BC in Mesopotamia and, shortly after, in Egypt. On the European continent, the oldest megalithic sites are dated around 3,000 BC, and the popular Stonehenge is dated between 2,400 BC and 1,800 BC.

This is the established chronology being taught in schools and believed by modern society. Prehistoric societies such as Atlantis have been declared myth.

Until now. New research now reveals that civilized humans were settled on Earth during the prehistoric era.

"Everything we've been taught about the origins of civilization may be wrong. Old stories about Atlantis and other great lost civilizations of prehistory, long dismissed as myths by archaeologists, look set to be proved true." - Danny Natawidjaja, PhD, senior geologist with the Research Centre for Geotechnology at the Indonesian Institute of Sciences (Source) Since 2011, Dr. Natawidjaja and his team have worked on a geological survey site in Indonesia about 100 miles from the city of Bandung. The significance of the site was first recognized in 1914 when megalithic structures made from blocks of columnar basalt were found around a summit of a large hill. When the hill's summit was cleared of trees, it was realized that the blocks formed five terraces. These were believed to be used for meditation and retreat. The site was deemed sacred by locals and dubbed Gunung Padang, meaning `Mountain of Light' or `Mountain of Enlightenment'. The age of the terrace structures was estimated around 1,500 BC to 2,500 BC.

What Natawidjaja discovered at Gunung Padang was astounding. The hill was actually not a natural hill but a 300-ft high step-pyramid. And what's even more controversial is that the structure was much older than anyone imagined. Natawidjaja radiocarbon dated the terrace structures at around 500 to 1,500 BC, similar to previous estimates. He also used tubular drills to bring up cores of earth and stone from various depths underneath the surface megaliths. As the drills dug deeper, Natawidjaja continued to discover that the columnar basalt structures extended far beneath the surface and yielded much older dates. At depths of 90 feet and more, the material was found to be 20,000 BC to 22,000 BC years old. Using radiocarbon dating, Natawidjaja and his team proved that man-made megalithic structures and hence a prehistoric human civilization existed well into the Ice Age.

"Gunung Padang is not a natural hill but a man-made pyramid and the origins of construction here go back long before the end of the last Ice Age. Since the work is massive even at the deepest levels, and bears witness to the kinds of sophisticated construction skills that were deployed to build the pyramids of Egypt or the largest megalithic sites of Europe, I can only conclude that we're looking at the work of a lost civilization and a fairly advanced one." - Dr. Danny Natawidjaja (Source)

The Greek philosopher Plato was also a believer that high civilization existed well into the last Ice Age. His recorded dialogs with other scholars of his time date Atlantis and its submergence by floods and earthquakes at around 9,000 BC, which is, coincidentally, in agreement with modern scientific knowledge about the rapidly rising sea levels towards the end of the Ice Age at 9,600 BC.

The question now arises: What happened to prehistoric civilizations? Why did they not survive the `Younger Dryas' period, which dates from 10,900 BC to 9,600BC? It is known that the Younger Dryas was a truly cataclysmic period on Earth, with immense climate instability and terrifying global conditions. Scientists have long debated the mystery behind this and the reasons for the massive extinction of North American megafauna such as short-faced bears and saber-toothed cats dated around 11,000 BC. Was the same mystery responsible for a massive human population decline and disappearance of advanced prehistoric societies?

New research conducted by geologists around the world, including James Kennett, professor emeritus in the Department of Earth Science at the University of California Santa Barbara, has linked the Younger Dryas period to a cosmic-impact event, possibly a comet collision with Earth. The international research team from 21 universities and 6 countries has identified a distribution of nanodiamonds of extraterrestrial nature at 32 sites in 11 countries, spanning an area of 50 million square kilometers across the Northern Hemisphere. Kennett comments:

"We conclusively have identified a thin layer over three continents, particularly in North America and Western Europe, that contain a rich assemblage of nanodiamonds, the production of which can be explained only by cosmic impact. We have also found YDB glassy and metallic materials formed at temperatures in excess of 2200 degrees Celsius, which could not have resulted from wildfires, volcanism or meteoritic flux, but only from cosmic impact." (Source)

It's known that during the Younger Dryas, the Earth experienced great global instability, with a sharp decline in temperatures even colder than during the peak of the Ice Age. A return to a warmer climate around 9,600 BC caused a sudden melting of the remaining ice caps, resulting in a quick rising of the ocean levels. Kennett and his colleagues believe that the beginning of the Younger Dryas and the sharp temperature decline were caused by a cosmic event, similar to the event responsible for the mass extinction of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. The scientists have called the moment in time illustrated by the nanodiamond datum as an isochron. Was this isochron responsible for creating the mystery of lost civilizations? Kennett believes so:

"It's not surprising that many large animal species, such as the mammoths, went extinct during this precise time and of course it had huge effects on our ancestors, not just those `primitive' hunter gatherers the archaeologists speak of but also, I believe, a high civilization that was wiped from the historical record by the upheavals of the Younger Dryas." (Source)

Date: 20 Sep 2014 23:59:48 +0100
Subject: FWD - "NASA footage of 'tether incident' proves aliens exist

This has been an open secret since Martyn Stubbs revealed NASA shuttle video-feeds of various `UFO' incidents:
[try Google results / YouTube results for `Tether incident'; and maybe `UFO Dance' - for some uncut video examples]
"UFO believers claim NASA footage of 'tether incident' proves aliens exist"
Carol Christian | September 17, 2014

You'll note the Examiner has also remarked that `Snopes' (usually ready to bend the truth in its fanatical `debunkery') has steered clear of the `Tether' incident - it knows any cover-up can readily be exposed as lies.

Ray D

Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 12:26:22 +0100
Subject:  Marco Polo and the "Kingdoms of Women"

Couldn't resist this, for several reasons:

i) an interest in the Great Goddess Era, which may have lasted from 11,000 years ago to at least 5 or 6 or 7,000 years ago (with traces extending all the way to 1st Century Levant (and even later, to medieval Spain).

ii) some remarkable comments in the attached notes from the `Digital Archive of Toyo Bunko' (below Al Jazeera article) - one:  that there were maybe three `Kingdoms of Women' and further:  that one is placed to the east of `Fu-sang' (an interpretation of Fu-sang is "Eastern Land" which some say is America), and, even more extraordinary, a comment:  that one Kingdom of Women "seems not to belong to mankind"!    Alien Women???
Lost Worlds
Marco Polo's travels retraced - from the Pamir Mountains along the Silk Road to Xanadu and the kingdom of women.
Special series Last updated: 05 Sep 2014 07:07 [Video embedded - 47 mins]

Marco Polo's famous 13th century journey from Venice to Beijing and beyond is retraced in modern times, exploring the worlds he wrote about, seeing what they look like now and asking searching questions about the relationship between East and West, then and now.

"What could he tell us about the Mongols and the most powerful empire on earth?" - Professor Qiguang Zhao is a teacher of Chinese culture who is tracing the journey that Marco Polo took in the 13th century, asking what the journey would look like today.

In around 1273, after two years journey, Marco Polo reached the Pamir Mountains on the edge of modern day China, where he follows the path of the Silk Road for himself, a trade route that was also the thoroughfare for ideas and beliefs.

From the markets of Kashgar, a merchant's heaven, to the edges of the forbidding Taklamakan Desert.

Travelling further east, Marco Polo discovered the world of the Mongol Empire and the heritage of their leader Ghenghis Khan. Moving on, Marco Polo approaches the centre of Mongol power, ready to come face to face with ruler Kublai Khan at Xanadu.

Along the way we meet the modern guides on the ancient horse-drawn postal routes and discover the kingdom of women.

At the end of this stage of the journey, now lost worlds are a reminder of the bigger question of what, and who, survives history.

Lost Worlds, the second episode of Marco Polo - A Very Modern Journey can be seen from Thursday, September 4, at the following times GMT: Thursday: 2000; Friday: 1200; Saturday: 0100; Sunday: 0600; Monday: 2000; Tuesday: 1200; Wednesday: 0100; Thursday: 0600.
National Institute of Informatics - Digital Silk Road Project
Digital Archive of Toyo Bunko Rare Books
230. FEMELES (ISLAND OF WOMEN) p.p. 711, 712, 713

Scholars have been agreed that the Chinese texts of the T'ang period confused two 'Kingdoms of Women', one to the north-west, and one to the east of Tibet. Sometimes these have even been mixed up with the legendary 'Kingdom of Women' to the east of Fu-sang.

At the end of the modern editions of the T'ai-p'ing huan-y chi (a work written in 976-983), there is a critical note saying : << There are three 'Kingdoms of Women' (N-kuo) recorded in various books. One was to the east of Fu-sang, and seems not to belong to mankind. One was among the south-western Barbarians ( I; << south-western >> here means bordering on [or included in] Ss-ch'uan and Yn-nan), and was called 'Eastern Kingdom of Women' (Tung N-kuo).

One was south of the Onion Range (Ts'ung-ling); this must be the one from which the 'Eastern Kingdom of Women' was differentiated by a distinction of 'Eastern' and 'Western' (as we shall see, this is an error). The T'ung tien records the 'Kingdom of Women' of Fu-sang, but not the 'Kingdom of Women' of the Onion Range. The T'ang hui-yao records [both] the 'Eastern Kingdom of Women' and the 'Kingdom of Women' of the Onion Range (as a matter of fact, there is in the T'ang hui-yao, 99, 8-11, only one notice, which is devoted to the 'Eastern Kingdom of Women', with a note saying that it was so called to distinguish it from another one in the Western Sea; the differentiation is not between a 'Kingdom of Women' among the 'south-western Barbarians' and another one south of the Onion Range).

The Hsin T'ang shu records only the 'Eastern Kingdom of Women'. The original text of the [T'ai-p'ing huan-y]chi recorded only one kingdom, the 'Eastern Kingdom of Women', and erroneously placed it among the 'eastern Barbarians', after [the notice on] Fu-sang.

Now, following the T'ung tien, we have transferred [this notice] to the 'south-western Barbarians' (hsi-nan Man) ; and, since it was conterminous to Fu-kuo, we have put it between Fu-kuo and Ai-lao. Moreover, after [the notice on] Fu-sang, we have added the notice on the 'Kingdom of Women' of Fu-sang of the T'ung tien, so as to fill up the omission in the present [T'ai-p'ing huan-yii] chi >>.

In spite, and partly on account of its serious mistakes, this note bears good evidence to the great confusion which prevailed in Chinese mediaeval texts in regard to the 'Kingdoms of Women'. BUSHELL (JRAS, 1880, 531) stated that the Su-p'i who submitted to China in 755 << were the remnant of a remarkable people of Eastern Tibet who were called the N wang state >> and that Hsan-tsang, in his notice on Suvarnagotra, has << wrongly identified >>it with this <<N wang state >>of eastern Tibet. In TP, 1912, 358, I have expressed a similar opinion, but ascribed the confusion to the author of the Hsin T'ang shu, who had misapplied the information provided by the pilgrim. When discussing the question of Suvarnagotra, THOMAS (Tibetan Texts and Documents, I, 152) leaves out the 'Kingdom of Women' in south-eastern Tibet (i. e. the Tungn kuo) as irrelevant. HERRMANN (in S. HEDIN, Southern Tibet, vIII, 22) locates in Rudok, in western Tibet, the 'Kingdom of Women' of the Sui shu and Hsan-tsang's Suvarnagotra, but (ibid., vIII, 448) says that the Su-p'i were a tribe in eastern Tibet. Before him, FRANCKE (JRAS, 1910, 489) had already said that Suvarnagotra was << evidently the ancient name of Guge, Ruthog [Tib. Ru-thog the same as <<Rudok >>], and Eastern Ladakh >>

In two works which are not at my disposal for the present (F[) ft 11 pL Yin-tu cha-chi, and an essay on the Ganges, ill y( Hng-ho k'ao), the modern Chinese scholar 4,f HUANG Mou-ts'ai has attempted, however, to determine the position of the 'Eastern Kingdom of Women', and of its capital in the K'ang-yen Valley, and proposed a region south-west of the Himalaya, in the upper basin of the Ganges (cf. TING Ch'ien's Sui-shu ss-i chuan ti-li k'ao-chng, Ch-Chiang t'u-shu-kuan ts'ung-shu ed., 15 a, and Hsin-chiu T'ang shu hsiy chuan ti-li k'ao-chng, same ed., 3 b). So HUANG Mou-ts'ai did not distinguish between two 'Kingdoms of Women', nor did TING Ch'ien when citing him.

But TING Ch'ien (Hsin-chiu T'ang shu hsi-y chuan ti-li k'ao-chng, 35 b) does not hint at any connection between the 'Kingdom of Women' and the Su-p'i. On the other hand, the Suvarnabh, << Land of Gold >>, of the Brhatsarnhit has been regarded by KERN as << in all likelihood a mythical land >> (cf. Ind. Antiquary, xxii, 190), and S. LEvi (cf. Mmorial Sylvain Lvi, 422) also considers the Strirjya, or <<Kingdom of Women >>, as half fabulous.

As to Hsan-tsang's 'Eastern Kingdom of Women', WATTERS (On Yuan Chwang's Travels, I, 330) declares it to be << undoubtedly a mythical region >>. Suvarnagotra means << Gold clan >>, but Hsan-tsang speaks of the excellent gold produced in the country.

So S. Lvi connected his account with the famous fable of the gold-digging ants in the Mahbhrata and Herodotus (cf. Mmorial Sylvain Lvi, 442; on this fable, see also LAUFER, in TP, 1908, 429-452; THOMAS, Tibetan Texts and Documents, t, 168-169). New documents, and a more careful examination of the ones previously known, have convinced me, however, that the views formerly expressed, including my own, do not correspond to the true facts. A confusion has occurred in Chinese texts, but different from the one which has been supposed hitherto.

The first point to emphasize is that Suvarnagotra, << Gold Race >>, in Tibetan gSer-rigs, was not a mythical, but a real country, the name of which occurs any number of times in the Tibetan texts translated by THOMAS. That these texts are not strictly historical, but often present as prophecies what is a retrospective interpretation of past events, need not raise suspicion; the names are true names, and the << Gold Race >> is no less entitled to be accepted into historical nomenclature than for instance gDon-dmar, << Red Faces >>, as a designation of the Tibetans.

Another certain point is that the << Gold Race >> was in frequent and close intercourse with Khotan; but here we may be under a partly biassed impression, on account of the fact that, in the present case, our Tibetan documents are of Khotanese origin, and leave in the dark the activities of the 'Gold Race' with which Khotan was not concerned. Finally, Hsan-tsang derives the name of the 'Gold Race' from its production of a superior 'gold'; in a similar manner, Tibetan texts mention in the country of the 'Gold Race' a mountain of 'gold' to which traders eagerly repaired.

We also have much more information now on the Su-p'i (*Suo-b`ji), who, according to the Hsin T'ang shu, received the name of Sun-po (*Suan-pu) after their annexion to the Tibetan empire, this clearly meaning that Sun-po was their Tibetan name. *Suan-pu would seem to suppose *Sun-pa, but I have shown in TP, 1921, 330-331, that the true original was Sum-pa, and explained why the Chinese, having no word sum in their language, had to resort to sun (*suan) ; the equivalence of Sun-po with Sum-pa has been amply confirmed by later research. Both names Su-p'i and Sun-po are now well-known from sources other than Chinese. THOMAS (Tibetan Texts and Documents, i, 9, 42) was first, I believe, to connect the Su-p'i with the Supiye, Supiya of Kharosthi documents of about the 3rd cent. A. D. (cf. BOYER, RAPSON, and SENART, Kharosthi Inscriptions, 377-378, s. v. supiya, supiyade, supiyana, supiyana, supiye, supiyehi); three times (Nos. 119, 324, 722), the Supiya are mentioned alongside of Calmadna, i. e. Cherchen (see << Ciarcian >>), and the suv'arnakara pa[rvatilyana of No. 578, mentioned after supiyana, may perhaps be a suvarnakara parvata, << Gold Mine Mountain >>, the 'Gold Mountain' of the 'Gold Race'.

As also noticed by THOMAS, the same form Supiya occurs in Khotanese (the so-called 'Saka'); cf. LEUMANN, Nordar. Lehrged., pp. 208, 513; Sten KoNOw, Saka Studies, 183. The very form So-byi, identical with Ch. *Suo-b`ji, is used in the Tibetan version of the Prophecy of the Li country (THOMAS, 78), probably made from the Khotanese.

So we may hold it quite probable that such was the Khotanese name of the people whom the Tibetans knew as Sum-pa ; the only qualification to that probably correct inference being that there are many names and terms in the said Prophecy which go back to Chinese originals, so that there is a remote possibility that the hitherto unique mention of So-byi may be based on Ch. Su-p'i (*Suo-b`ji) itself.

The name Sum-pa occurs many times in various Tibetan texts, mostly without any epithet, but, in one paragraph of the Inquiry of Vimalaprabh, as Ba-dag (or Ba-bdag) Sum-pa (THOMAS, 241-243), with a probable allusion to another name Ba-Ian Sum-pa.

While we must be very grateful to THOMAS for the many texts he has rendered accessible, I must say quite frankly that I dissent from the identifications he has proposed. According to THOMAS, the Gold Country, or Country of the Gold Race, would be the region of Hunza and Nagar in the Kanjut (Kunjud) Valley, north of Gilgit, and the Gold Mountain might be the great Rakapushi itself (pp. 153-156, 165-166 ; but from the names possibly formed with -dkar, -gar, -sgar, suppress that of Pho-dkar, which is a late transcription of *Bobar, Bokhara ; see Bucara >>).

The Supiya, Su-p'i or Sum-pa would be originally Hsiung-nu (Hna, Huns), of Sien-pi origin, and the Sum-pa of Tibetan texts of the 8th-10th cents. would be really Hnas or quasi-Minas >>, Su-p'i and Sum-pa being fundamentally the same name as Sien-pi. As these Hunnic Sum-pa were great marauders, their name remained attached to other tribes which used to make incursions upon Khotan, such as the Qarluq Turks. As to the Ba-dag Sum-pa, they would be people of Badabgn, who, on account of their marauding habits, may << have a real identity of name with the Tibetan Sum-pas, who were actually, like the Tu-yuk-hun [T'u-y-hun], of Sien-pi origin >> (THOMAS, pp. 9-10, 156-159).


Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 08:21:06 +0100
Subject: Re: Re: FWD - "UFOs The True Story of Flying Saucers 1956

Hello Roy,

My perception is that modern reporting is still cursed with censorship and the obligatory ridicule first imposed and still maintained by CIA / Hollywood / USA/UK Gov'ts.

Predictably that means well-meaning folk collecting reports tend to act defensively, and to become polarized into various camps (i.e. ETH, Tricksters, Multi-dimensional etc).  As a result, at the moment UFO Groups can be even more pro-censorship than the MSM.

So think the best approach is to begin at the beginning, i.e. in the forties and fifties (bearing in mind Vallee's opinion that the phenomena have existed for many centuries and may have co-evolved with human beings):
Where we stood fifty years ago - after the `invasions' of Washington (1952) & Rome (1954) and elsewhere, followed by total cover-ups and partial censoring of media, especially in the USA.
UFOs The True Story of Flying Saucers 1956
Documentary produced by Rouse and Greene

See also for background, and maybe for some confirmation.
The perceptions of Hynek and Vallee (their books are available on-line (free) in PDF form)
[personally don't rate Hynek highly, first because `Blue Book' was an incompetent front, and secondly because his book(s) seem defensive and slightly self-protecting.]

Hynek and the Air Force's `Blue Book' (Dolan says they didn't make even one investigation that was worth a damn).

(N.b. what interested Vallee, as a scientist, was the reference to "continual re-embodiment" which is a cutting-edge revelation of quantum physics - as recognized by Einstein in his final years:  "I consider it quite possible that physics cannot be based on the field concept, i.e., on continuous structures.  In that case, nothing remains of my entire castle in the air, gravitation theory included, [and of] the rest of modern physics." - Albert Einstein 1954)

Again, books by Vallee are freely available on-line
Modern Reports
Dr Richard Haines collection:
UFO sightings and Official FAA cockpit recordings of pilot UFO sightings

[ BTW - those wanting full details, including links to those books mentioned, can go to:
REPORTS - when they were honest
REPORTS - of suppression
PRESENT DAY - when no-one's honest ]

-----Original Message-----
From: Roy MacKinn
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 5:53 PM

> Hi Ray,
> I haven't looked at my flying saucer books for quite some time. One of my favourites was 'The Flying Saucers Are Real' by Donald Keyhoe. And then there were other interesting topics like Adamski, Roswell etc etc. So many headings. so many sightings - you could go on and on for ages.
> Is there any one aspect of UFO's which interests you in particular ? I ask because it is such an immense topic.
> Roy

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:18:57 +0100
Subject: FWD - Martin Rees: Can we prevent the end of the world?

He's said some silly things in the past - but in this _very_ short TED talk (only 6 mins+) he's getting a bit gloomy.
[Although he _did_ say something sensible - a bit earlier?]
Martin Rees: Can we prevent the end of the world?

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 05:25:05 +0100
Subject: FWD - Possible Ancient Civilizations - or More

Very interesting, especially the critique of `Darwinism' - and liked the testimony of Linda Moulton Howe, and her somewhat unsettling view that human `evolution' might be a product of superior interference (see << A.R. Wallace, perceptions >> in Google.

BTW - fully agree with that theory that the Sphinx is approximately 12 or 13 thousand years old, apart from the weathering evidence, the alignment alone is enough to convince me.
FORBIDDEN ARCHEOLOGY 2: Ancient Alien Discoveries of Early Man

Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 23:18:26 +0100
Subject: Re: W. Smith's 'Binding Force Meter?'

Hi Eleanor, think that's the key clue you want to detect - a change in the `inertial field' (which is the `binding force' imho).

As Dr Richard Haines commented re: the case of an airliner's gyro compasses being affected: "We don't know how to do that". (2mins 49sec in).

BTW the effect was to turn the airliner towards the incoming UFO.

Dr Haines reported a similar thing happened to an aircraft flying north from Florida under radio-beacon guidance.


(I'd initially posted that it must have changed the phase of the incoming radio-beacon signal but now realize that a change in the local inertial field would also have affected the aircraft's electronics (by changing the momenta of electrons).

And in that case the effect was also to turn the aircraft towards the incoming UFO.

So you _do_ need a gyro-compass (or equivalent) - as recommended earlier in this thread.

[Actually a slower and mini-version is a pendulum, especially a calibrated Foucault pendulum - but those are a bit unwieldy.]

Ray D

Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:05:46 +0100
Subject: FWD - Re: "Big-cat sightings" in UK

You might understand why I've sat on this nugget of data for some years:
mainstream media ridicule and big-science propaganda were too strong for possible reality to be recognized - the order of the day was "nothing to see here - move along".

However I'd had a rather startling experience which had changed my view of the debate.  So here's my mail to George Monbiot in response to his article in the Guardian (which I thought was rather knee-jerk skepti-bunker stuff). It had begun:

"Big-cat sightings: is Britain suffering from mass hysteria?
In 1995, government inspectors spent months on Bodmin moor in Cornwall looking for evidence of a 'beast' roaming wild there.  They found nothing.  Yet every year there are 2,000 similarly spurious big-cat sightings in Britain.  What's going on?"

and George did at least acknowledge the message, if not recognize its reality.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Dickenson
Sent: 23 May 2013 19:45
Subject: George Monbiot Contact: "Big-cat sightings" in the Guardian


Liked the piece as it stood, yet - although I'm not an aficionado of way out theories and don't watch Doctor Who or Trekkie stuff - I'm in a position to be fairly certain that a `big cat' (not a feral cat nor a wild cat or any other European breed) was within a few feet of me one afternoon.

I would walk, with a book and maybe binos in the afternoons, near here in west Shropshire / eastern Powys.  Lots of wildlife to see, water birds, occasional fox stalking rabbits, mink (if you stand still for a while) and suchlike.

A favourite short walk was along a canal bank and a detour up to an abandoned railway embankment which was quite pleasant for a read or some bird-watching or even fox-watching, being raised up, intermittently wooded along the edges and level grass along the old permanent way.

One afternoon had just arrived there and walked south along the ridge to read or smoke a pipe.  After ten minutes or so I walked back ten yards or so northward to look at the bushes along the eastern edge of the line.  Getting close to the thickets was suddenly frozen in my tracks by a vicious hissing snarl which was unmistakably that of a `big cat' of some kind objecting to my closeness.

Domestic cats, feral cats and European wild cats are incapable of making that sound.  And, no it wasn't a dog - of any sort.

I backed off quietly and sat down to smoke a pipe about ten yards back from the bushes.  After ten or fifteen minutes went back to the line of bushes and checked under and behind them.  There was a tunnel running through the shrubbery going all the way along the embankment.  It was about ten inches to a foot high and round, much too big for a fox to make, or anything smaller, but just about right for some sort of intermediate sized `big cat' to keep clear by its passage.

Ray Dickenson

Tue, 18 Jun 2013 14:46:00 +0100
Subject: FW: George Monbiot Contact: "Big-cat sightings" in the Guardian

Hi Ray,

Many thanks for taking the time to send me this.

All good wishes,


Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 10:21:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Your message: re: Meso-South America history

-----Original Message-----
From: Tarcsio ********
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 2:01 AM

> Ray, how's it going?
> Well this said, I am sending this message to thank you about the links and ask you some directions.

> It looks like that you are not a believer on chakra system or the dormant multidimensionality of a human being.
> Beside my guesses what is your take on this?

> I would like to share with you some questions about alchemy, XV century paintings and ancient religion, but it depends mainly if you think this as relevant matter.

Hello again Tarcsio,
Slow down, you might be misjudging me.  Admittedly I don't take a position on multidimensional matters, yet I am aware that the nature of `reality' is not known to us - and may never be known to primitive humans.  That might mean we have more choices than we presently realize.

Best regards

PS - and I do have interest in those other subjects you mention, as I think there's possibly a great deal hidden in the past.

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 17:36:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Your message: re: Meso-South America history

Your site is so immense, but I have been scratching the MetaMAIL [see original mail] as I can and you have done some references that I am willing to understand.

However, despite his Xtian agenda (scarcely a commendation of `truth'), he's on stronger ground with the apocryphal reports of interchanges with `tricksters'. Some respectable researchers like Vallee and Hynek have frankly commented on this, and compared it to ancient myth and legend (i.e. supernatural reports). But that doesn't mean the tricksters are necessarily "demons", merely beings with slightly different moral codes (and we humans can't claim high morality).

Strangely enough, if you check those ancient myths and legends you'll find that the `tricksters' usually had a _higher_ regard for literal truth and oath-keeping, so they're always very particular about the precise wording of agreements / promises / pledges etc. And in the tales most humans usually failed the tests, except maybe for a sharp-witted heroine or hero.


Is this about multidimensional beings? If it is, who else call them tricksters? Is there a specific "Vallee/Hynek" source i should have read already on the matter?

Thank you, as always.


Sat, 2 Aug 2014 08:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Your message: re: Meso-South America history

Hello Tarcsio

Right, the term `tricksters' seems to be in current use among both Ufological and Folk-lore, Mythology circles.  I think I first saw it being used by Vallee to describe some of the beings reported by ancient mythology _and_ similar beings reported by modern UFO/ET/Alien contacts.  Think Hynek had conferred and agreed with Vallee but don't have references for that (maybe Hynek kept that aspect out of mainstream reporting?).

Here's some references found with a quick search of the site:

[with link to Vallee's TED talk video at:

And, if sufficiently patient and dedicated a Google search link might take you to all those above and many more:

Hope that helps with your project.

Best regards
Ray Dickenson

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