comment + criticism welcome
Copyright © 2012 Ray Dickenson
Search For The
Report on search for UFO's & Fairies / Legends / Supernatural
Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:59:43 +0000
UFO UpDates contributions
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:51:15 -0300 - Senr. Thiago Luiz Ticchetti, vice-presidente EBE-ET/Brasilia/DF, International Coordinator UFO Magazine Brazil, posed question re:
"correlation between UFOs and fairies, mythology, legends, folklore and so on"
- on UFO Updates List.
Which fairly quickly became a discussion re: `little green men' which, as per David Rudiak's post, was a mid 1900's media put-down of ET & UFO investigation.
Although, as Chris Aubeck and Greg Boone respectively noted -
a) world-wide check of folk-tales needed,
b) some tales like abductions and "changelings" seem international and timeless.
Tue 09 Mar - suggested check on `Green Man'.
Thu, 11 Mar - Trevor Seguin said `Green Man' embedded in Celtic legend and also steered to `green children'.
Follow-up found:- `The Green Children of Woolpit, Suffolk, England' (c. 1200 ?) [Wiki ref.] - "no-one knows whether or not the Green Girl ever had children of her own".
Other `greenchildren' plus older persistent stories of child-abductions, substitutions and `changeling' children - often with `wizened, yellowish or greenish faces' are found in Ireland, Scotland, Wales & England legends.
See - Changeling Legends from the British Isles
Plus Dr Brewer's `Dictionary of Phrase & Fable' (twelfth edition) p. 365, gave some post medieval `Green Man' roles:-
a) animal - Head huntsman / gamekeeper (on estates);
b) plants - Herbalist and distiller;
c) chemistry - Maker & igniter of "squibs and fireworks".
All hinting at relic (or relict) respect for `nature lore' of pre-medieval "Green Man" legend.
Sun, 14 Mar put the "green gods / green children" question to forteans.
Forteana Group contributions
Mon, 15 Mar - Rachel Carthy posted news of Khidr, the Green Ancient, an Immortal -
"He is the mysterious guide ..." at http://khidr.org/khidr.htm.
That webpage gave - "historically speaking, Islam inherited the tradition of Khidr from earlier myths and faiths".
Again, an `immortal' guide - from pre-history. N.b. the fish associated with Khidr the Green might be another ancient icon - for Wisdom
Already we'd got an ancient nature god of pre-Celtic Britain, a setting of which at least one scholar (Prof J Morris Jones c 1900) said - `the pre-Aryan [ie. pre-Celtic] idioms which still live in Welsh and Irish were derived from a language allied to the Egyptians'.
And, checking in Egypt, there was another `mystery god' - Bes -
He was originally pre-pantheonic, eventually becoming `benevolent god of birth & guardianship'. www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/bes.htm said "he is never shown in profile, but always full-face, almost unique in Egyptian art .. Bes is a very unusual god. He does not appear to be Egyptian at all".
No temples to Bes, but, like the Green Man, lots of household images, amulets and figurines. Those checked seem to be of jasper or faience (both greenish).
Followed same day by Timothy Hodkinson's urging to check claimed Celt - Egyptian links.
So, re-read my source-copy to clarify (and got a fortean correlation from own
Whole thing is on p. 78 of `Myths and Legends of the Celtic Race'
by TW Rolleston, last edition 1919 Harrap - London
"Rhys and Brynmor Jones find that the African origin - at least proximately - of the
primitive population of Great Britain and Ireland is strongly suggested. It is here
shown that the Celtic languages preserve in their syntax the Hamitic, and especially
the Egyptian type"
(footnote) `The Welsh People' pp. 616-664 where the subject is fully discussed in an
appendix by Prof. J Morris Jones:- "The pre-Aryan idioms which still live in Welsh and
Irish were derived from a language allied to Egyptian and the Berber tongues"
But here's something TW Rolleston et al would not have known:
A fairly recent comparison of world blood-groupings (by a UK uni?) made the news a few years ago when it matched a (native) North Welsh population group to the blue-eyed Beduin. (Berbers / Tuaregs).
And a later 2009 DNA analysis confirmed that bloodgroup finding.
Note: the language analyses, blood-type correlation and DNA matches outlined above strongly indicate that any migration of significant numbers of folk from the area of Ancient Egypt through Europe to its western extremities - Ireland and Wales - must've happened a very long time ago - beyond recorded history.
That's because there's been a great deal of subsequent migration (mostly from eastern Europe, within `recorded history'), which has `in-filled' the intervening areas and has, more or less, diluted traces in those countries, even in England and Germany, which are quite close to Europe's extremity.
Timothy also reminded us - "AFAIK green is regarded as being associated with the Fairies, who you should never talk about"
We note that similar block or geas, due to religious `ownership' of the color green, also exists in much of the eastern world.
[BTW, careful attributions, mine in third person, _might_ be sub-conscious try to avoid retribution for breaking the geas.]
End of `Facts'
1) D'you feel `aversion' for this discussion?
Why? Is there a block of logical thought
on this subject?
2) A (maybe) world-wide story of Green Man associated with birth, (forced?) growth, guardianship, guidance - throughout the ages.
Maybe world-wide fear of abductions (mostly of babies) and of `changelings' / substitutions.
Does this suggest primeval breeding / construction program for human race"?
3) `Green Men' are (indirectly) mocked / denigrated in mid 1900's media - around the start of _heavy_ exploitation / destruction / desecration of nature world-wide.
4) Are we led to Alfred Russel Wallace's thoughts?
And then to Anthony Roberts and Geoff Gilbertson's `Dark Gods' analysis?
I.e. - was Charles Fort right when he said "I think we're property ... That once upon a time this Earth was No-Mans Land, that other worlds explored and colonized here, and fought amongst themselves for possession, but now it's owned by something, all others warned off"?
D'you think `change of ownership' happened when Earth exhibited atomic / nuclear weapons
Check Psyche Storms, and maybe The `Good Folk'