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Copyright © 2012 Ray Dickenson
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A Debate

Finding the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

(on return to UK)

1 - the Good and not-so Good

Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: Shadow stats
From: "Helen"

Aren't our expectations greater these days, though? For example, it used to be enough to have a roof over your head; now you need a conservatory, landscape garden, and Feng Shui'd airing cupboard.  A new kitchen and bathroom every 2-5 years; new carpets, etc.  The car 'should' be replaced more often.  People don't seem to put up with second hand much anymore, and everything has to be new.  And if you don't holiday abroad at least twice a year, then it doesn't count as a holiday.  Weekend breaks to Wales, Lake District and Cornwall don't count as holidays - they're just breaks, and taken as well as the two trips abroad.

I know people like this; hardworking people.  Their notion of poverty is worlds away from mine.  Poverty to them is only having 5,000 in the bank and one holiday a year.  They think very little of going out and spending 180 on a pair of sunglasses.  And these are people on pretty much the same wage as me.


Subject: Re: Shadow stats
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:45:46 -0000
From: Ray D

Right Helen,
Had fun a few years ago doing "hard" surveys for a national company that handled gov't research stuff -

- "hard" only because their usual survey folk weren't at ease in ethnic areas or sink estates or asking difficult subject questions (some of the research tackled alcohol / drugs / sexual orientation / ethnic etc etc)

or indeed being in those areas later than normal working-hours (at request of company sometimes stayed on quite late into the evening, which is not normal practice).


a) - Well, regardless of research subjects, found lots of happy people living at what could be called poverty or near-poverty levels in inner [cities] and outer suburbs around the country (England and Wales), or even semi-rural, but mostly with wide friends or family groups, pets, many healthy pursuits and a range of interests and hobbies, many related to craft work or adult education or local culture/history etc.

Those folk were great to talk to but had hard time getting away, lots of food and drink offered, lots of handshakes, high-fives, "call back again sometime" and all that.  Include _all_ ethnic grps in this, and also student "dosses" - some extreme (all blokes - booze, smoke, no furniture, sit on floor), others very civilized (girl-only groups - `do have another cup of tea').

b) - Whereas, in plush ("secure") areas found brusque or miserable "rich" folk aiming for exclusive life-styles; the women were basically sad / lonely but covering-up big-time.

They [the rich] were not people you'd want to hang about with or chat to - many of the older ones were indeed loquacious but almost all conversation was about job-importance or income; a doctor insisted on telling me how much an hour his time was worth - some obscene amount, and he was loading golf bags into car - at midday, mid-week - at the time.

c) - In between found a fair amount of confused types trying for the "good life" but apparently not getting much satisfaction.

No - didn't form any deep conclusions, although was told many interesting stories & shown many interesting projects, and lots of tattoos (strangely mostly by girls), and even got asked if I was `dealing' by a big young Indian-Asian guy - a little out-of-touch, obviously.

Happiness doesn't seem to correlate with a big bank-account, but couldn't say for sure that the opposite was necessarily true either.

Ray D

Altruist Survivor Series

  1 - Error   |   2 - Fools   |   3 - Choices   |   4 - Sexual   |   5 - New Evil   |   6 - Choices 

  7 - Cults   |   8 - Cults (2)   |   9 - Cults (3)   |   10 - Options   |   11 - Survival  |   12 - Discoveries  

  13 - Future 

2 - the Bad and the Ugly

Subject: Vanishing children
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 18:57:13 +0100
From: Rachel,7369,1483935,00.html

Missing: the mystery of 300 boys who have disappeared from school Torso in the Thames case reveals 'scandal' of vanished children as welfare groups urge action


Some experts estimate that thousands of children vanish from the system each year.


Subject: Re: Vanishing children
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 19:33:52 +0100
From: Ray D

Rachel, you might want to search on << dethrates >> in Google, and then amend that to "women and children" missing.

Remember my `wild claim' re: the pedophile conspiracy?  Well, also remember that British police and "security" were _running_ a pedophile network in N Ireland - arranging the rapes (and maybe murders) of children for "security purposes".

And do we really believe that UK police,  (whose job it is to know what is going on),  did _not_ know that councils' childrens homes  [in England & Wales]  were, for forty years or more, being "used" by men-in-suits:  landed gentry, senior police, churchmen, judges [& politicos] and similar filth?

Try "laworjustice" for the details.

Ray D

Subject: RE: Re: Vanishing children
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 19:39:03 +0100
From: <admin@...>

>British police and "security" were _running_ a >pedophile network in N Ireland - arranging the rapes (and maybe murders) of children for "security purposes".

Now lets see some evidence/references to back that up.

Subject: Re: Re: Vanishing children
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 20:20:26 +0100
From: Ray D

Don't know where you've been sleeping pal - try << Kincora children abuse >> in Google - and keep going.

Ray D

Subject: Re: Re: Vanishing children
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 20:20:43 +0100
From: Joe

Network might be pushing it, but the security services were definitely willing to let organised child abuse go on in Kincora House in the hope that various senior loyalists would compromise themselves sufficiently to become assets.

Colin Wallace's cross-examination under oath before the Bloody Sunday Inquiry is online at


Subject: RE: Re: Vanishing children
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 20:51:55 +0100
From: <admin@...>

I stand 100% corrected, sorry Ray, it just sounded to horrible to be true.
Thanks for the info Joe.

Subject: Re: Vanishing children
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 21:40:49 +0100
From: Ray D

Hope I didn't sound too sharp - 'cos, arriving back in UK (in c. '86) I thought I was returning to an honest, democratic country.  Didn't take too long to find out different.

Ray D

Subject: Re: Re: Vanishing children
Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 00:05:41 +0200
From: Theo P

Oh Ray,

But I am with you on the paedophile conspiracy thing - here in the Netherlands we had two separate very recent cases, one of a judge and the other of a prosecutor both with child porn on their pc's; they both were punished so lightly it is beyond ridiculous.  And know what? The media has sunk so below the quality line - that they swallowed everything hook, line and sinker.

Yes, I am with you on the conspiracy thing.  And this is no paranoia - I wish it were!


2012 Update - NL Church & Castrations

Subject: Re: Vanishing children
Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 08:58:38 +0100
From: Ray D

Hi Theo,

You're too right.  It seems that people getting hold of reins of power: police-chiefs, lawyers & judges, politicians & bureaucrats, top media-men, churchmen, head-teachers, even celebrities & glitterati, often abuse that power, in worst ways.

Have to admit I didn't see this until part-way thru military service - and it was a wise, nature-minded girlfriend who gave tip-off.  Incidentally, wise girlfriend also advised - _don't_ accept "Masons" invite.

But, as we see, even `good' military orgs get perverted when the top men are corrupt.  Fish rot from the head. ref-1

Ray D


Later addition - Rigorous Intuition's Jeff Wells (now at has some words and `dangerous' quotes on the subject.
Nb. - Re `dangerous' - d'you wonder why many sites featuring this story have `closed' or `been closed' to date?  As have many victims and potential witnesses.
[Hopefully more revealings to come on this - if the bent cops, benter lawyers, or bent politicos' enforcers [MI-5] don't kick the door in first]

[ Just heard (14 July 2014) that the official "inquiry" into the Kincora pedophile network was hurriedly changed at the last moment to exclude _any_ investigation of visitors to the `establishment'.  I.e. only staff and social workers had to face the music.  Which to me looks like a pervert senior judge/politico (or group of them) was acting to protect himself and his pervert cronies!

Here's the sleazy backgound (text file), only recently available.  It seems fairly obvious that the UK Gov't lied persistently over Kincora, and that all senior political, judicial and police personnel involved were corrupt or pervert - or both. ]

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